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Offline Galwayversys

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Re: Engine compatibility
« Reply #10 on: Jan 04, 2019, 01:43 PM »
*Originally Posted by Kawaboy [+]
What was the mileage on the engine Mr G?

About 30k kms when I bought it a year ago. Bike condition was compatible with the mileage, but I'm obviously having my doubts now.

Offline Kawaboy

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Re: Engine compatibility
« Reply #11 on: Jan 04, 2019, 08:45 PM »
*Originally Posted by Galwayversys [+]
About 30k kms when I bought it a year ago. Bike condition was compatible with the mileage, but I'm obviously having my doubts now.
Should be good for four or five times that many kms easily. Even with a few overdue oil changes. Maybe just some bad metal got through QA  on that day :notsure:
« Last Edit: Jan 04, 2019, 08:45 PM by Kawaboy »
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Offline Galwayversys

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Re: Engine compatibility
« Reply #12 on: Jan 06, 2019, 12:27 PM »
Soooooooo, not a lot of Versys engines out there, but quite a few ER6 engines, and for a lot less money too.

What I know:
- ER6 and Versys engines have different cams, the ignition timing is therefore different.
- The Versys head is different also, for lower compression. I could live with the different power delivery.
- I'm reluctant to get an ER6 engine and replace the head and cams with my existing ones, i'd rather go plug-and-play

What I don't know:
- Would an ER6 engine run if I used an ER6 CDI on the Versys's loom?
- Would I also need to replace the ECU?

Anyone able to offer any insights?

Offline uralrob

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Re: Engine compatibility
« Reply #13 on: Jan 06, 2019, 12:44 PM »


 Can't help there, G.V., but I am wondering if that is the original engine or perhaps an ex race ER6 one swapped for the original.
 Of academic interest only, I realise.

 Rob.
Don't take Life too serious, it's not permanent.

Online kevin..in

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Re: Engine compatibility
« Reply #14 on: Jan 06, 2019, 12:56 PM »
*Originally Posted by Galwayversys [+]
Soooooooo, not a lot of Versys engines out there, but quite a few ER6 engines, and for a lot less money too.

What I know:
- ER6 and Versys engines have different cams, the ignition timing is therefore different.
- The Versys head is different also, for lower compression. I could live with the different power delivery.
- I'm reluctant to get an ER6 engine and replace the head and cams with my existing ones, i'd rather go plug-and-play

What I don't know:
- Would an ER6 engine run if I used an ER6 CDI on the Versys's loom?
- Would I also need to replace the ECU?

Anyone able to offer any insights?
You won't find a lot of info out there mainly because hardly anyone has killed a versys engine, including you I can only recall two others in the 5 years that I've been around here. I'd doubt that fitting an ER6 engine and using the versys ECU would make enough difference for it to be an issue.

Online TowerMan

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Re: Engine compatibility
« Reply #15 on: Jan 06, 2019, 01:31 PM »
Info taken from the V.com site where people have looked / done this  :7:

Engine wise, the only difference is the head height (lower compression), cams, ignition trigger. The heads are entirely swappable.
All the engine mounts are the same. You can do a direct swap from frame to frame.

Versys head is different (more volume) for lower compression. Versys inlet and exhaust cam lobes have less duration and lift than the 650R's... Versys inlet camshaft is however identical to 650R's exhaust camshaft All other engine components are the same.

Ninja 650R/ER6:
Inlet- open 31° BTDC................Exhaust- open 50° BBDC
close 61° ABDC........................close 30° ATDC
duration 272°..........................duration 260°
cam height 36.6 +/- 0.057 mm... cam height 35.9 +/- 0.057 mm

Versys:
Inlet- open 25° BTDC................Exhaust- open 47° BBDC
close 54° ABDC........................close 25° ATDC
duration 260°..........................duration 252°
cam height 35.9 +/- 0.057 mm... cam height 35.4 +/- 0.057 mm

ECU is also mapped differently. Versys ignition timing ranges from 10° BTDC @ 1300 rpm, to 33° BTDC @ 5000+ rpm.
650R: From 10° BTDC @ 1300 rpm, to 35° BTDC @ 4800+ rpm.

Versys also has a crossover tube in exhaust header, before collector.

Cylinder base gasket is about 0.25 mm thick. Head gasket is a 3-layer steel, about 0.75 mm thick... You can remove the center layer of the head gasket, using copper head gasket sealer to seal the outer layers together. Such is BRP's prefered method, instead of removing base gasket which also lowers any wear ridge at top of stroke.

Gary "BRP"
http://www.blueridgeperformance.net/

"We do not use high compression pistons. JE (forged) pistons weigh more than stock (cast aluminum) pistons. Heavier parts move slower. We run stock pistons, with a milled head and cylinder. Depending on the track, we use different combos of Versys and 650R cams. (A cheap route, is to install a Versys intake cam in your 650R, and put the 650R intake cam in the exhaust.) We have billet cams ready to grind, but until we start getting some requests, they will stay in the unground form. Proper porting & compression nets the biggest gains.
Stock rods stretch a lot faster. Not a big problem, until you start getting over 75 hp. My engine builder is currently building some flat track engines. One is a 700cc, the other 750 using stock bore/rod length, with stroked crank and custom built pistons, with pin location moved. Those should be in the 90+ hp range."

Ninja 650R=EX650=ER6F(or ER6N variant)

Richard  :001:
Richard    :001:           

Offline Galwayversys

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Re: Engine compatibility
« Reply #16 on: Jan 07, 2019, 07:59 AM »
Thanks all for the replies!

*Originally Posted by uralrob [+]

 Can't help there, G.V., but I am wondering if that is the original engine or perhaps an ex race ER6 one swapped for the original.
 Of academic interest only, I realise.

 Rob.

No idea, I'm afraid. Once I source another engine I'll be able to compare cams and head height to get some clarity, i guess.

*Originally Posted by kevin..in [+]
You won't find a lot of info out there mainly because hardly anyone has killed a versys engine, including you I can only recall two others in the 5 years that I've been around here. I'd doubt that fitting an ER6 engine and using the versys ECU would make enough difference for it to be an issue.

*Originally Posted by TowerMan [+]
Info taken from the V.com site where people have looked / done this  :7:

Richard  :001:


"ECU is also mapped differently. Versys ignition timing ranges from 10° BTDC @ 1300 rpm, to 33° BTDC @ 5000+ rpm.
650R: From 10° BTDC @ 1300 rpm, to 35° BTDC @ 4800+ rpm."

I don't have enough experience to tell whether this is a small or a big difference in timing (i.e. if the versys ECU would work), but at least it's starting to sound like ER6 engine + ECU would be a workable solution.
More googling required (ECU fit, mostly)

Offline sullspots

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Re: Engine compatibility
« Reply #17 on: Jan 07, 2019, 08:48 PM »
There’s an engine for sale on Facebook marketplace in Colne,Lancashire for £320.

“Engine with 25000 miles, some damage due to chain coming off. Deflector flange broken and oil feed. Many useable parts.”

I sold one a couple of years ago,980 miles on it for £450,not much call for them.

Offline Galwayversys

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Re: Engine compatibility
« Reply #18 on: Jan 07, 2019, 09:21 PM »
Thanks sullspots! Just today I found a crankshaft WITH CONRODS on eBay, cheap too.
This means I don't have to replace the big end bearings, which is great.

I'm traveling with work next week, but I should be able to start rebuilding at the end of January.

Now to find that shim I dropped on the floor if the garage...

Offline Kawaboy

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Re: Engine compatibility
« Reply #19 on: Jan 17, 2019, 01:58 PM »
Good luck with the rebuild  :028:
I want to retire, no longer required,
I want to get by without the man on my back.