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Author [NL] [FR] [ES] [DE] [SE] [IT] [NO] [MY] Topic: 2012 Verys 650 and Cross Winds  (Read 1552 times)

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Offline Maverick

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Re: 2012 Verys 650 and Cross Winds
« Reply #10 on: Jan 13, 2020, 06:02 PM »
*Originally Posted by jkristjan [+]
I had a Moto-Guzzi V9 Bobber which was in my opinion straight out flawed and dangerous design. The steering was unstable, a crosswind hit the front wheel specifically and turned the handlebars, not just push the whole bike. This inherent design flaw caused upper back and shoulder strain, because the subconscious mind was never able to relax and ease off steering. After that, every bike seems super stable and immune to crosswind, but I can say that both my Ducati Scrambler and Versys 650 feel super stable, plus Versys feels like a train on rails. I never feel any wind from any direction has any effect on these bikes whatsoever. The Versys has height and side area, but that is equaled out by the fact that you have a huge leverage, minute steering inputs cause massive forces to fight against the wind, compared to small and low bikes. Plus the Versys 650 is superbly balanced, I don't know how have they done it but sometimes it feels as there is a massive gyro wheel in the bike holding it straight and up.

I was once hit by a massive, sudden gust while on the V it push us across the road a foot or so. I stayed within the lane but I'm glad I wasn't on the centreline with an approaching car. My mate was a Triumph Sprint GT and was similarly affected.

Offline jkristjan

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Re: 2012 Verys 650 and Cross Winds
« Reply #11 on: Jan 13, 2020, 06:11 PM »
Yes, this is why you'll always need to give yourself that room for error, especially on windy days. And in order to properly do it, everyone should have a full lane to themselves plus safe following distance front and back, not the staggered line or sh#t like that. I expect a statement like this will get a lot of hate but if you think risk vs gain, riding in those tightly packed and limiting formations is about the worst deal one could do.

Offline Gustavo

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Re: 2012 Verys 650 and Cross Winds
« Reply #12 on: Jan 13, 2020, 06:29 PM »
Wait, staggered doesn't mean in the same space (two abreast, like some US motorcycle cops ride).  A correctly staggered formation is safer, you don't want to be right behind another bike, that limits your field of view.  Correctly staggered means you are not following in the tracks of the bike ahead of you, you are in the other half of the lane, but still a good, safe distance behind it.

Something like this, with at least this type of distance between bikes:


Also, when cornering (I mean a corner that requires an actual "line" through it, not some gentle curve you can easily keep the formation through, although I recognize that what a "real curve" is varies with riding skill), you obviously break the formation, and position your bike on the correct line, but that requires increasing the space between your bike and the one just ahead of it that is now on the same track (to keep a safe ~2 second gap).

I know some people ride a lot closer when going down a straight road, sometimes even sharing the lane (two abreast) and maybe that's when it gets muddied a bit. 

Gustavo




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Offline Maverick

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Re: 2012 Verys 650 and Cross Winds
« Reply #13 on: Jan 13, 2020, 06:30 PM »
*Originally Posted by jkristjan [+]
Yes, this is why you'll always need to give yourself that room for error, especially on windy days. And in order to properly do it, everyone should have a full lane to themselves plus safe following distance front and back, not the staggered line or sh#t like that. I expect a statement like this will get a lot of hate but if you think risk vs gain, riding in those tightly packed and limiting formations is about the worst deal one could do.

No hate but if you are referring to me you made assumptions which were incorrect.

1. It was not a windy day, it was a sudden, massive and totally unexpected gust. That sort of thing happens in Australia from time to time especially in the outback.
2. There was no tightly packed formation or staggered riding, I was following a mate heading into Alice Springs.
3. I had plenty of room, like I said in my original post I stayed within my lane and so did my mate and seeing as there was approx 200-300 metres separating us no risk of colliding with each other.

Offline jkristjan

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Re: 2012 Verys 650 and Cross Winds
« Reply #14 on: Jan 13, 2020, 06:42 PM »
No assumptions about the specific case, just mentioning that the most common case of not having a full line to yourself is when riding in some formation.

I know what a staggered line is. I would not even go as far as to discuss something even worse like the parade formation (side by side).

What I don't get about the justification of the staggered line is the assumption that 1s of following distance is somehow made better by the fact that you intend to keep a few feet of lateral offset with the rider you follow. It is still 1s of distance, you will need that distance when sh#t hits the fan and when sh#t hits the fan, it is more likely than not that lines will not be held. You will need a minimum of 2s of following distance with the vehicle moving in front of you in your lane. On the attached image above, that distance is 1 second and that is fucked. I am yet to see a case where a deer runs into a bike in the staggered line, that bike goes down, keeps its line position and the bike behind it swiftly whooshes by from either left or right. But I have seen a big clusterfuck of intermingled bikes and bikers snowballing down the road, dragging along a dead moose and half a truckload of pavement shavings :)

Additionally, you will need to provide space for the overtakers to switch back into the lane, no two vehicles are allowed to close up that space by any traffic law in any county I know of.
« Last Edit: Jan 13, 2020, 06:49 PM by jkristjan »

Offline jim ballantyne

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Re: 2012 Verys 650 and Cross Winds
« Reply #15 on: Jan 14, 2020, 08:59 AM »
Worst wind I ever encountered was when doing the Atlantic highway on a single cylinder Suzuki Freewind a really light bike
Jim

Offline Len Grundy

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Re: 2012 Verys 650 and Cross Winds
« Reply #16 on: Feb 06, 2020, 09:49 PM »
I must say gentlemen I am amazed as I have a similar problem but had not put it down to side gusts. Whilst cruising at 70 MPH often the front wheel feels like it has wheel wobble. I was convinced it was down to wind turbulence, hadn't considered the effect on the handle bars. Will give the fore mentioned techniques a try when on the motorway. Thanks for the heads up. Safe riding everyone. :biker1:

Offline Len Grundy

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Re: 2012 Verys 650 and Cross Winds
« Reply #17 on: Feb 08, 2020, 09:26 PM »
Penry, in reply to your request about wanting to know how I got on with the add on screen. I got out today before the storm hits tonight or tomorrow and made some adjustments. The obvious thing is that when I put the screen in a position similar to the position in the picture already posted, that improved things. I did find that a fairly small adjustment can make a big difference for the better or for the worse. I have the feeling at the moment that I won't get it to the point where I wouldn't need ear plugs. Don't really want that but would like to get things better than they are at the moment. For some reason or other the right hand side of the helmet is noisier than the left. :187: Any way have improved things enough to make me think I will continue to make adjustments until I get it to what I think is the best for me. Thanks for your interest, all the best Len. :028:

Offline Clubpenguin

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Re: 2012 Verys 650 and Cross Winds
« Reply #18 on: Feb 08, 2020, 10:54 PM »
I actually changed lanes on a motorway on my old Honda deauville, the screen was like a sail. The Versys is pretty good but we ride two up so the extra weight might help.
chris and keeley

Offline penry

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Re: 2012 Verys 650 and Cross Winds
« Reply #19 on: Feb 13, 2020, 07:17 AM »
*Originally Posted by jkristjan [+]
No assumptions about the specific case, just mentioning that the most common case of not having a full line to yourself is when riding in some formation.

I know what a staggered line is. I would not even go as far as to discuss something even worse like the parade formation (side by side).

What I don't get about the justification of the staggered line is the assumption that 1s of following distance is somehow made better by the fact that you intend to keep a few feet of lateral offset with the rider you follow. It is still 1s of distance, you will need that distance when sh#t hits the fan and when sh#t hits the fan, it is more likely than not that lines will not be held. You will need a minimum of 2s of following distance with the vehicle moving in front of you in your lane. On the attached image above, that distance is 1 second and that is fucked. I am yet to see a case where a deer runs into a bike in the staggered line, that bike goes down, keeps its line position and the bike behind it swiftly whooshes by from either left or right. But I have seen a big clusterfuck of intermingled bikes and bikers snowballing down the road, dragging along a dead moose and half a truckload of pavement shavings :)

Additionally, you will need to provide space for the overtakers to switch back into the lane, no two vehicles are allowed to close up that space by any traffic law in any county I know of.

Interestingly riding 'in echelon' is taught at police driving schools.

Whilst you make a completely valid observation that the closer vehicles are to each other in the event of the bike ahead of you colliding with an animal crossing the carriageway and being deflected into the path of the vehicle riding offset behind, what is the actual difference between this scenario and for example a motorcyclist in the outer lane riding at a very similar speed to one in the lane on his inside where they could quite conceivably, and perfectly legally, be offset by a similar distance yet even closer or indeed alongside each other.

The 'physics' are entirely the same. The only difference is a white line painted on the road surface to indicate separate traffic lanes.

I am unaware of any legislation that prohibits this practice but happy to be enlightened.
 
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