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Offline grumpyoldgit

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Rubbish Brakes?
« on: Aug 11, 2020, 04:22 PM »
Change the fluid!

My last three bikes have been an '83 an '88 and a '97 so I'm used to braking early or with my heart in my mouth. When I got the V it was a hell of an improvement so didn't think that I may have had less than adequate brake performance.

Last week after a spot of daydreaming on my part and a late braking, non indicating, Nissan driving   :172: deciding to suddenly turn right  I had to grab a handful! I stopped with plenty of distance  to spare but was surprised by how long it took me to stop.

I'd already noted that the rear brake wasn't the best - an uphill hold using the rear brake required a fair push with the toes.
So the following day I gave the brakes a once over but nothing seemed amiss, I just put it down to average brakes.

Theres only about 6K miles on the bike and no mention in the service book of a fluid change so thought I'd change the fluid at some near point in the future.

That point was today.

No noticeable air in the system, but plenty of crap and discoloured fluid came out of the callipers (how does the crap get in there?) check it out..



The difference between old and new is like black and white. I think I've probably halved my braking distance and there's even a danger of me pulling a stoppie now! all for the princely sum of 8 for half a litre of Silkolene.

So before you splash out on braided hoses an super dooper brake pads pump some fresh lifeblood through the system and see what the results are.  :028:
« Last Edit: Aug 11, 2020, 04:39 PM by grumpyoldgit »

Online TowerMan

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Re: Rubbish Brakes?
« Reply #1 on: Aug 11, 2020, 04:35 PM »

As you have found out  the front brake on the 2007 / 2008 Mk1 V650 is not good as well
On these bikes it was a squarish shaped master cylinder



but K changed the front master to a more curved top design on the 2009 Mk1 V650 and Mk2's



which improved the braking feel and power  :7:

If you want to, you can swap out the 2007/8 design and replace it with the later type master cylinder, which was also used on many ER6 and later Kawasaki 650 models  :028:

Additionally the brake lines for you Mk1 model should have been changed or will need changing by now - suggest you get a set of HEL brake lines  :028:

Also the rear brake on the Mk1 and Mk2 Versys 650 was not very effective due to the small rear dia of the disc ~200mm.  :138:
The Mk3 was improved by K changing the rear disc to a 250mm unit  :028:


hope this helps  :001:
« Last Edit: Aug 11, 2020, 04:44 PM by TowerMan »
Richard    :001: 


Offline kevin..in

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Re: Rubbish Brakes?
« Reply #2 on: Aug 11, 2020, 04:48 PM »
I fitted a mk3 rear brake to my mk1

Offline jdoyle

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Re: Rubbish Brakes?
« Reply #3 on: Aug 12, 2020, 03:47 PM »
Does the mk3 disc fit in the mk1 caliper as my rear disc is a bit shagged anyway might be a nice little upgrade
And thanks grumpy i thought the fluid looked a bit manky in mine so its on the list :-)
Thanks
J

Offline grumpyoldgit

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Re: Rubbish Brakes?
« Reply #4 on: Aug 12, 2020, 04:04 PM »
*Originally Posted by TowerMan [+]
As you have found out  the front brake on the 2007 / 2008 Mk1 V650 is not good as well.....

but K changed the front master to a more curved top design on the 2009 Mk1 V650 and Mk2's



which improved the braking feel and power  :7:

If you want to, you can swap out the 2007/8 design and replace it with the later type master cylinder, which was also used on many ER6 and later Kawasaki 650 models  :028: ...

Is there a mirror mount hole hidden on the other side of that or is integrated into the bolt clamp thingy not shown ?
(Basically, if I keep an eye out for one will I need the clamp too as opposed to my current one?)
ta.

Online TowerMan

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Re: Rubbish Brakes?
« Reply #5 on: Aug 12, 2020, 04:35 PM »
*Originally Posted by grumpyoldgit [+]
Is there a mirror mount hole hidden on the other side of that or is integrated into the bolt clamp thingy not shown ?
(Basically, if I keep an eye out for one will I need the clamp too as opposed to my current one?)
ta.
You will need the mirror mount  Pt/No. 43034-0049
FYI - a new one costs 28.40

which can be found fitted to all these bikes
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2020 Z650 - ER650LLF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2016 Vulcan S Caf - EN650BGFB FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2019 Versys 650 ABS - KLE650FKF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2014 Versys - KLE650CEF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2019 Vulcan S ABS SE - EN650DKFA FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2019 Vulcan S ABS - EN650DKF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2020 Z900 ABS - ZR900FLF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2019 Vulcan S ABS CAF - EN650EKF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2018 Z650 ABS - ER650HJF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2019 Z900 - ZR900AKF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2018 Versys 650 ABS - KLE650FJF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2020 Vulcan S ABS SE - EN650DLFA FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2020 Z650 ABS - ER650KLF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2018 Z650 - ER650GJF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2018 Vulcan S ABS SE - EN650DJFA FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2019 Vulcan S - EN650CKFA FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2018 Versys 1000 LT - KLZ1000BJF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2019 Versys 650 ABS - KLE650FKFA FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2020 Vulcan S - EN650CLF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2020 Vulcan S ABS CAF - EN650ELF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2020 Z650 ABS - ER650KLFA FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2010 Versys - KLE650CAF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2012 Versys - KLE650CCF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2013 ER-6n (European) - ER650EDS FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2015 Versys 650 ABS - KLE650FFF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2015 Vulcan S ABS - EN650BFF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2015 ER-6n (European) - ER650EFF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2009 ER-6n (European) - ER650C9F FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2017 Z650 - ER650GHF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2017 Z650 ABS - ER650HHF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2017 Vulcan S ABS CAF - EN650EHF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2018 Z900 ABS - ZR900BJF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2018 Vulcan S ABS - EN650DJF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2010 ER-6n - ER650CAF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2011 Versys - KLE650CBF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2009 ER-6n - ER650C9F FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2017 Z900 - ZR900AHF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2017 Vulcan S - EN650CHF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2016 Z800 ABS - ZR800BGF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2016 Vulcan S - EN650AGF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2016 Vulcan S ABS - EN650BGF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2016 Versys 1000 LT - KLZ1000BGF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2014 Versys ABS - KLE650DEF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2010 ER-6n (European) - ER650CAF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2020 Z650 - ER650LLFA FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2016 Versys 650 ABS - KLE650FGF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2017 Versys 650 ABS - KLE650FHF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2017 Vulcan S ABS - EN650DHF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2015 ZR800 (European) - ZR800AFF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2014 ZR800 (European) - ZR800AEF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2013 ZR800 (European) - ZR800ADS FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2014 ER-6n (European) - ER650EEF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2011 ER-6n (European) - ER650CBF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2012 ER-6n (European) - ER650ECF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2019 Z650 - ER650GKF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2019 Z650 ABS - ER650HKF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2019 Z900 ABS - ZR900BKF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2013 Versys - KLE650CDF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2020 Z900 ABS - ZR900FLFA FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2017 Vulcan S ABS SE - EN650DHFA FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2017 Z900 ABS - ZR900BHF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2018 Vulcan S ABS CAF - EN650EJF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2018 Vulcan S - EN650CJF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2017 Versys 1000 LT - KLZ1000BHF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2020 Versys 650 ABS - KLE650FLFA FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2018 Z900 - ZR900AJF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2016 Vulcan S ABS SE - EN650BGFA FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2020 Vulcan S ABS - EN650DLF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2016 ER-6n (European) - ER650EGF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2015 Vulcan S - EN650AFF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2015 Versys 1000 LT - KLZ1000BFF FRONT MASTER CYLINDER
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2009 Versys (European) - KLE650A9F Front Master Cylinder(A9F)
Kawasaki Motorcycle 2009 Versys - KLE650A9F Front Master Cylinder(A9F)[/i]

Richard    :001: 


Offline kevin..in

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Re: Rubbish Brakes?
« Reply #6 on: Aug 12, 2020, 04:57 PM »
*Originally Posted by jdoyle [+]
Does the mk3 disc fit in the mk1 caliper as my rear disc is a bit shagged anyway might be a nice little upgrade
And thanks grumpy i thought the fluid looked a bit manky in mine so its on the list :-)
Thanks
J
No but a big part of the problem is the rubbish tociko caliper.
To do a mk3 rear brake upgrade you need (first use the search function on the forum!) Or mk3 disc, mk3 caliper , mk3 caliper bracket and a custom made brake pipe. Fitting is simple (if you need the fitting explained you should not be doing the job)

Offline jdoyle

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Re: Rubbish Brakes?
« Reply #7 on: Aug 14, 2020, 03:34 PM »
*Originally Posted by kevin..in [+]
No but a big part of the problem is the rubbish tociko caliper.
To do a mk3 rear brake upgrade you need (first use the search function on the forum!) Or mk3 disc, mk3 caliper , mk3 caliper bracket and a custom made brake pipe. Fitting is simple (if you need the fitting explained you should not be doing the job)
Thanks Kevin
I just had a look at your post for the upgrade looks straight forward but would cost a little more with a replacement caliper and brake pipe + the disc so may be on the long finger

So in the mean time I have replaced the brake fluid as I had noticed it was manky anyway and had a half bottle left over from doing the rear brakes on the polo 2 weeks ago
Cheers

Offline jdoyle

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Re: Rubbish Brakes?
« Reply #8 on: Aug 14, 2020, 03:37 PM »
*Originally Posted by grumpyoldgit [+]
Change the fluid!

My last three bikes have been an '83 an '88 and a '97 so I'm used to braking early or with my heart in my mouth. When I got the V it was a hell of an improvement so didn't think that I may have had less than adequate brake performance.

Last week after a spot of daydreaming on my part and a late braking, non indicating, Nissan driving   :172: deciding to suddenly turn right  I had to grab a handful! I stopped with plenty of distance  to spare but was surprised by how long it took me to stop.

I'd already noted that the rear brake wasn't the best - an uphill hold using the rear brake required a fair push with the toes.
So the following day I gave the brakes a once over but nothing seemed amiss, I just put it down to average brakes.

Theres only about 6K miles on the bike and no mention in the service book of a fluid change so thought I'd change the fluid at some near point in the future.

That point was today.

No noticeable air in the system, but plenty of crap and discoloured fluid came out of the callipers (how does the crap get in there?) check it out..



The difference between old and new is like black and white. I think I've probably halved my braking distance and there's even a danger of me pulling a stoppie now! all for the princely sum of 8 for half a litre of Silkolene.

So before you splash out on braided hoses an super dooper brake pads pump some fresh lifeblood through the system and see what the results are.  :028:
cheers Grumpy
Did that today during my lunch break ( still working from home ) will see if it makes any difference but it was manky anyway and needed to be changed :-)
Also readjusted rear brake light switch as it did not come on for a lot of lever travel
J

Offline grumpyoldgit

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Re: Rubbish Brakes?
« Reply #9 on: Aug 14, 2020, 04:13 PM »
*Originally Posted by jdoyle [+]
cheers Grumpy
Did that today during my lunch break ( still working from home ) will see if it makes any difference but it was manky anyway and needed to be changed :-)
Also readjusted rear brake light switch as it did not come on for a lot of lever travel
J

If there's the same marked improvement there was on mine it was half an hour well spent  :028:

Spookily I also have a Polo alongside the Versys, if you've got a Golf too there's defo something sinister going on here  :008: