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Offline Krisnow

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Re: Fitting Brembo Callipers
« Reply #10 on: Jan 20, 2021, 02:55 PM »
oh, sorry, I got confused, because I thought we talk about Versys 650. 

the size of the pistons in 650 is 27mm so with MC14, the result is  2289.06 divided by 153.86 = 14.87.  Very hard/wooden brakes, as I have already pointed out.  with 12.7mm MC the ration will be 18.07. 

Offline TowerMan

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Re: Fitting Brembo Callipers
« Reply #11 on: Jan 20, 2021, 03:55 PM »
*Originally Posted by Krisnow [+]
oh, sorry, I got confused, because I thought we talk about Versys 650. 

the size of the pistons in 650 is 27mm so with MC14, the result is  2289.06 divided by 153.86 = 14.87.  Very hard/wooden brakes, as I have already pointed out.  with 12.7mm MC the ration will be 18.07.
Kris

FYI, the recommendations for calipers that only have pistons on one side that i have found - ( ie like V650 ) - the sweet spot is in the 14:1 to 12:1 range, so the 14mm m/c is therefore ideal.

Since upgrading my V650 (with braided hoses and bleeding them properly) the braking is now 2 finger and very progressive  :123A:

Richard    :001: 

             

Offline TowerMan

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Re: Fitting Brembo Callipers
« Reply #12 on: Jan 20, 2021, 04:08 PM »
Kris

With regards to a V1k Mk2 better setup:

I did ask www.Carpimoto.com, on this link HERE, what they would advise on the best axial or radial M/C to fit   :exclamation:

Question:
I am looking for a better feeling master cylinder for my 2015 Kawasaki Versys 1000.
The OEM setup is a 14mm Axial M/C and each calliper has two off 1-3/16 (30.2mm) and two off 1-1/16 (26.97mm) pistons in each caliper.
At the moment the feel is still very long and spongy (I have already replaced Brake Lines with Hel).
What types / sizes of Radial and Axial Master cylinders would you recommend upgrading to to give a better feel on the road  :question:
Thanks in advance :-)

Answer:
The correct upgrade will be a 15mm radial (modulable) or a 16mm axial master cylinder (still modulable) or a 17 radial (more power, less modulable).

Does that agree with your experience on the V1k  :002:



Richard    :001: 

             

Offline Krisnow

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Re: Fitting Brembo Callipers
« Reply #13 on: Jan 20, 2021, 04:16 PM »
*Originally Posted by TowerMan [+]
Kris

FYI, the recommendations for calipers that only have pistons on one side that i have found - ( ie like V650 ) - the sweet spot is in the 14:1 to 12:1 range, so the 14mm m/c is therefore ideal.

Since upgrading my V650 (with braided hoses and bleeding them properly) the braking is now 2 finger and very progressive  :123A:

Richard

Ah ok, that makes more sense.  However, I think my Tiger 800 has the same floating callipers and same 14mm Mc, and fitting 12.7mm was a great improvement.   Much less effort is required now to stop the bike.

Offline Krisnow

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Re: Fitting Brembo Callipers
« Reply #14 on: Jan 20, 2021, 04:30 PM »
*Originally Posted by TowerMan [+]
Kris

With regards to a V1k Mk2 better setup:

I did ask www.Carpimoto.com, on this link HERE, what they would advise on the best axial or radial M/C to fit   :exclamation:

Does that agree with your experience on the V1k  :002:

If you want to change just the MC, I would choose 17mm Brembo RCS or Corsa.   Corsa has more adjustments but is a bit more expensive.  I think Radial brembo would provide enough modulation, and it can be adjusted for road or track riding which changes how it responds.  15mm would probably be too soft for you.  Brembo usually recommends 15 RCS just for a single disc.  Nothing can beat the Brembo MC, in my opinion.  if you go this route, don't forget the buy from caprimoto an adaptor so it is easier to connect the brake line to the bottom of the MC, and banjo bolt with the fine thread.
« Last Edit: Jan 20, 2021, 04:37 PM by Krisnow »

Offline TowerMan

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Re: Fitting Brembo Callipers
« Reply #15 on: Jan 20, 2021, 05:13 PM »
Kris

Interestingly I have now found out / realised why the 2007/2008 V650's (Square shaped m/c) have such a wooden feel to them  :7:

They use a 5/8" dia m/c which gives a very wooden / hard feel to the brakes as the ratio is only 11.5:1  :151:
which is well away from the recommended 14:1 setting.

Where the later V650 Mk1 & 2 (2009 to 2014) have a 14mm M/C which = 14.8:1  :028:
That's why Gustavo & I, have previously alway recommended 2007 / 2008 owners to improve the braking, by fitting the "curved" shaped m/c from a 2009 Versys / ER6 / 650N 

------------------------------------------------------

As a side thought on the V1k Mk2:
As Carpimoto recommend / suggest a "16mm axial master cylinder"
Has anyone get an old square shaped Versys / ER6 5/8" (15.89mm) master cylinder they do not want and can send me for an experiment  :123A: :123A:  :031:
Richard    :001: 

             

Offline Krisnow

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Re: Fitting Brembo Callipers
« Reply #16 on: Jan 20, 2021, 11:06 PM »

Offline Krisnow

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Re: Fitting Brembo Callipers
« Reply #17 on: Jan 21, 2021, 05:42 AM »
ok, how one defines 'soft' brakes?  Richard, you mentioned that V1 feel spongy.  my question is how much the brake lever has to travel before you feel resistance?  For instance, I fitted Brembo callipers to V650 with OEM MC (tomorrow I replace it with Brembo 17) and the lever moves to around 1cm before encountering resistance.   But I would not call the brakes spongy, because once it passes this distance, I can stop the bike immediately or even engage ABS with 1 finger.

I noticed that most of the sport bikes have no 'free play' in their brake levers, they are very hard.  I like if the lever moves a bit before fully engaging the braking. 

Offline TowerMan

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Re: Fitting Brembo Callipers
« Reply #18 on: Jan 21, 2021, 08:40 AM »
*Originally Posted by Krisnow [+]
ok, how one defines 'soft' brakes?  Richard, you mentioned that V1 feel spongy.  my question is how much the brake lever has to travel before you feel resistance?  For instance, I fitted Brembo callipers to V650 with OEM MC (tomorrow I replace it with Brembo 17) and the lever moves to around 1cm before encountering resistance.   But I would not call the brakes spongy, because once it passes this distance, I can stop the bike immediately or even engage ABS with 1 finger.

I noticed that most of the sport bikes have no 'free play' in their brake levers, they are very hard.  I like if the lever moves a bit before fully engaging the braking.
Kris

About 6 months ago I finally got rid of the spongy feeling by getting rid of the last bits of trapped air in the calipers, by pushing all the pistons in whilst bleeding it  :celebrate:

The lever is now firmer, but it now has a longer travel than i would like, because of the high ratio @ 34:1. :016:
So I would hope to reduce the lever travel down a bit, by fitting a slightly larger m/c as described previously. :028:
Say a 16mm bore instead of the 14mm it has at the moment. :027:
« Last Edit: Jan 21, 2021, 08:41 AM by TowerMan »
Richard    :001: 

             

Offline Krisnow

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Re: Fitting Brembo Callipers
« Reply #19 on: Jan 21, 2021, 09:26 AM »
*Originally Posted by TowerMan [+]
Kris

About 6 months ago I finally got rid of the spongy feeling by getting rid of the last bits of trapped air in the calipers, by pushing all the pistons in whilst bleeding it  :celebrate:

The lever is now firmer, but it now has a longer travel than i would like, because of the high ratio @ 34:1. :016:
So I would hope to reduce the lever travel down a bit, by fitting a slightly larger m/c as described previously. :028:
Say a 16mm bore instead of the 14mm it has at the moment. :027:

yes, ok, so one could say that 'soft' is not the same as 'spongy'.  soft I would say means longer lever travel, while spongy is just not working properly due to trapped air for instance.  the way I see it, the benefit of smaller MC is less effort is required to stop the bike, but it can also result in more aggressive or abrupt braking.  by the way, I use speed bleeders that have one way valve.  from many things I tried, they are most effective in getting rid of trapped air.

if you are interested, my mechanic has Nissin radial 16mm, second hand, in good condition.  price, around 80usd.  or get a new one if you can.  Nissin is much less expensive than Brembo.  Radial MC gives you much better feel.
« Last Edit: Jan 21, 2021, 10:15 AM by Krisnow »