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Offline Gustavo

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Re: New Versys for 2022 ???
« Reply #60 on: Nov 26, 2021, 06:49 PM »
*Originally Posted by uralrob [+]

 I question whether there's any satisfaction in endless choice at all, which is why some people keep grasping for 'different' with little thought to function.

 When abs first became available on the 650 here in Canada I hurried out, wallet in hand. 85k km later I have yet to use it in action. If I were to get into a dire situation, quicker reaction times in the noggin would almost certainly be of more help than abs  :008:.

 Now, where were we .... :034:

 Rob.

I have to disagree on the ABS.  We are not all nearly as good at riding (or as young and fit  :whistle:) as you are.  We get distracted and make mistakes.  Suddenly we panic and grab a handful of front or stab the rear a little too hard, it doesn't take that much when it's wet.  That's where ABS comes in. 

Sure, if we all had Marc Marquez like reflexes and skills, we could do w/o ABS.  But we are not.  Or at least, I am not.  And apparently some ditch-explorers here aren't either...   :007:

I am not against technology, but the "connectivity" most manufacturers provide is near useless.  It's like they are finally realizing mid-2000's Bluetooth technology exists when the world has moved on from that.  If they want to make really useful connectivity, they need to offer Android Auto/Apple Car play, so you can project a real map and navigation onto the instruments, like Honda has started doing.




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Offline Stewie

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Re: New Versys for 2022 ???
« Reply #61 on: Nov 26, 2021, 09:48 PM »
I hated having a huge TV in front of me when I had the Africa Twin for a few hours.
It was far too distracting.

All the useful information is on the little screen below.

Offline uralrob

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Re: New Versys for 2022 ???
« Reply #62 on: Nov 27, 2021, 02:12 AM »


 I agree about that screen, Stewie.

 Re abs, Gustavo: the point I should have included is that good quality modern tires have such remarkable grip that it takes a very hard stop indeed before the front wheel starts to lose traction. Many of us will have dumped the bike as a result of the rapid deceleration and the resulting nosedive before the abs cuts in. And some of us don't even get around to grabbing a serious handful of brake before the accident occurs.
 Even on wet roads the grip of a modern front tire under hard braking is remarkable. And wet is pretty obvious; most of us slow down and increase the size of our safety cushion when we see wet.
 
Now that you've got me thinking, for urban riding, manhole covers, car doors opening, an alert rider with excellent reflexes and a strong grip could well benefit from abs. For many riders, myself included, it will more likely be a case of 'slam, bam, sorry, ma'am' before being carted off in an emergency vehicle.

 Tires have come a long way since those early promo shots of BMWs with outriggers and abs were posted. And they were filmed on ice, if I remember correctly.

 Rob.

 
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Offline Shandy

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Re: New Versys for 2022 ???
« Reply #63 on: Nov 27, 2021, 07:43 AM »
I agree totally about the need for 'real' updates and improvements, the comfort seat one made me chuckle!  :008:

However, although I am in agreement that TFT /LCD Dash and connect this and that doesn't apply or appeal to US.... I think it is important for the future of motorcycling!  :5: Let me tell you why...

It's the kids, the new starters, the ones starting to come into motorcycling now.

s we all had the latest and greatest machines pinned up on our walls as kids, the latest tech and styling. It's important the kids of today have the same desire and lust for the best looking / tech'd up bikes available.

The kids now, expect TFT's, LCD's & STD's. The same kids who never had to get up and walk over to the TV to change the channel, never had to sit and wait whilst their favourite movie re-wound on VHS. Never had to worry about their CD 'skipping' or scratching as they played it in their Sony DiskMan. Or even have no idea what it is to have a screen that's NOT touch screen!

If manufacturers didn't invest in these things or let them filter down to the lower model's like the 650's then motorcycling would be in danger of fading away.

We already know that the younger generations aren't buying bikes in the same numbers as us older ones did or continue to do so. With governments everywhere making licencing harder, insurance creeping up and the tech in cars getting ever more technical. It's all motorcycle manufacturers can do to keep up or try!

And as for ABS, yes defiantly without doubt necessary.

TC, sadly like ABS it's becoming standard and will be necessary for the younger generation, who are used to not having to do things for themselves, relying on the bikes computer to work it all out for them! (Just look at our resident youngster, Jay  :4: ) and not forgetting, all the tech in the world, you can still end up in a ditch  :008:


Having said all that, no I'm not impressed with the new V650, it's just a shame as it would have ben the ample opportunity to update the range. But it's a cost exercise because it must be getting harder to keep the V650 priced low and still profitable.

I like the lights, most sensible update in my opinion. I commute and ride in all weathers, but even if you don't, daytime running lights are a good idea and better lighting is always a good idea. Ever struggled to see something coming out of the low sun?

TFT, take it or leave it.

TC a good idea, it only has to save you once to pay for itself. Although I've never felt I needed it on the V, I used it once on a slippery, icey petrol station exit when pulling out on my old SX. That experience was enough to convince me of it's value.

I would have liked a comfort seat as standard though.  :152:
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Offline 100milesaway

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Re: New Versys for 2022 ???
« Reply #64 on: Nov 27, 2021, 11:34 AM »
 I also agree that ABS is pretty much essential on a road bike.

It saved my bacon once on a 1250 Bandit. There are certain situations that your reflexes and instant reactions are not up to dealing with, situations that ABS would effectively deal with.
« Last Edit: Nov 27, 2021, 11:35 AM by 100milesaway »
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Offline mac one

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Re: New Versys for 2022 ???
« Reply #65 on: Nov 27, 2021, 12:35 PM »
If you can't ride a bike without ABS then maybe you need more practice, miles under the belt in poor weather helps a lot, i found that off road riding gives you more ability on road than you would ever believe, in my view you should not have to rely on ABS, we don't all have the ability of GP riders but just look how they all  manage without ABS.

Offline Shandy

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Re: New Versys for 2022 ???
« Reply #66 on: Nov 27, 2021, 12:53 PM »
*Originally Posted by mac one [+]
If you can't ride a bike without ABS then maybe you need more practice, miles under the belt in poor weather helps a lot, i found that off road riding gives you more ability on road than you would ever believe, in my view you should not have to rely on ABS, we don't all have the ability of GP riders but just look how they all  manage without ABS.

 :182:

Firstly, I don't think anyone here is suggesting they use ABS all the time and it's not a matter of needing practice. ABS is a safety feature, there 'just in case' and if you're honest everyone can hold their hands up to a situation where they probably weren't riding to their best standard. Weather that moment required the intervention of ABS, TC or not it certainly doesn't mean that rider is unskilled or incompetent in any way. I ride all year round (Yes Jay, I do before you say anything  :008: ), all weathers and certainly don't require any more 'experience' of these things.
If someone is riding around using ABS all the time, it's not experience they need, it's a car! or maybe a garage.
GP riders may not have ABS, but they certainly have a Sh*t tonne of other electronics to keep them on the track, including ultra advanced TC, full engine, fuelling and suspension remote adjustment. Infinite number of rider 'modes', turn by turn GPS where the bike knows exactly where it is on track at any time and can remotely adjust, engine mapping, suspension, throttle response engine breaking and TC all on the fly or pre programmed to adjust differently at each corner or straight! With all that, who needs ABS? I guarantee you, Marquez would NOT get around Silverstone even one lap without all those electronics....are you suggesting he needs more practice?
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Offline uralrob

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Re: New Versys for 2022 ???
« Reply #67 on: Nov 27, 2021, 01:39 PM »


 Interesting points, all.

 I hadn't thought about modern youth needing the bright screens to attract them. Good point, but sad.

 As for electronics for the street rider, I wouldn't be without efi. It serves me well every time I ride. I also don't miss speedometer cables.

 abs is very effective, and hats off to those who are quick enough and strong enough to activate it. Thanks to improvements in tires since the arrival of abs I suspect most of us would be lying on the pavement before the abs cuts in. The problem is not the abs, it is that operator skills are lagging behind the advances in traction technology.

 Rob.
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Offline 100milesaway

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Re: New Versys for 2022 ???
« Reply #68 on: Nov 27, 2021, 01:45 PM »
*Originally Posted by mac one [+]
If you can't ride a bike without ABS then maybe you need more practice, miles under the belt in poor weather helps a lot, i found that off road riding gives you more ability on road than you would ever believe, in my view you should not have to rely on ABS, we don't all have the ability of GP riders but just look how they all  manage without ABS.
mac, I can assure you that I don't need anymore practice at riding bikes.

After 56 years of riding all manner of bikes, on and off road. And every kind of bike from a 50 cc step through, to a 158 bhp ZX 12.



And until about 5 years ago, I have rode all year round, with every conceivable weather, and road condition imaginable. So I don't think that I need anymore practice.

Furthermore, I don't RELY on ABS, but just appreciate that in million to one situations it could, and in my case did, save me from a very dangerous situation.

Also to compare riding a bike on the road, complete with dangerous road surfaces, such as potholes, diesel spillages, slippery road marking and moronic car drivers, who care little for any other road user, and simply don't understand what road craft means. None of which Moto GP riders have to deal with, is just ridiculous.

Riding safely on the road is a fine art, and many riders find out the hard way, that it is not anywhere near as easy as it looks. As I have stated many times on here, I dislike many of the gizmos and gadgets that are fitted to today's bikes, because most of them, offer nothing of benefit to my kind of biking. However, ABS has saved me from what could have been a very nasty accident,  so is pretty much a must have for todays bikes.


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Offline Shandy

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Re: New Versys for 2022 ???
« Reply #69 on: Nov 27, 2021, 01:52 PM »
*Originally Posted by 100milesaway [+]
mac, I can assure you that I don't need anymore practice at riding bikes.

After 56 years of riding all manner of bikes, on and off road. And every kind of bike from a 50 cc step through, to a 158 bhp ZX 12.



And until about 5 years ago, I have rode all year round, with every conceivable weather, and road condition imaginable. So I don't think that I need anymore practice.

Furthermore, I don't RELY on ABS, but just appreciate that in million to one situations it could, and in my case did, save me from a very dangerous situation.

Also to compare riding a bike on the road, complete with dangerous road surfaces, such as potholes, diesel spillages, slippery road marking and moronic car drivers, who care little for any other road user, and simply don't understand what road craft means. None of which Moto GP riders have to deal with, is just ridiculous.

Riding safely on the road is a fine art, and many riders find out the hard way, that it is not anywhere near as easy as it looks. As I have stated many times on here, I dislike many of the gizmos and gadgets that are fitted to today's bikes, because most of them, offer nothing of benefit to my kind of biking. However, ABS has saved me from what could have been a very nasty accident,  so is pretty much a must have for todays bikes.

 :89:
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